In this episode, we are talking with Amy Small about her journey from a traditional business, selling physical products in stores, to taking her niche to the online space. She shares the difficulties she encountered in the traditional market and online market and how being true to herself helped her through those struggles.
We are also talking about how in a creative business, the outcome of every launch is unpredictable because your product is your art and people differ in response. That’s why being authentic in your branding, having the right mindset of abundance, and not fearing the unpredictability of your launches will help you grow your business.
Amy Small is founder of Knit Collage, a business that specializes in unqiue handspun yarns, knitting and crochet patterns and crafting in community. At the heart of Knit Collage is the idea that making things makes us better. This might look like more creativity and confidence or more patience and peace in your day to day life. In a nutshell, it’s not just about the yarn – it’s about finding something that helps you and makes you feel like your most authentic self!
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3 Big Take Aways
- Do not fear the spontaneity of launching, trust the process, and do not be emotionally attached to the outcome because it will not be the same every time you launch.
- Market research is significant in the growth and development of a business as well as in the customer journey.
- The more authentic your brand’s launching is, the more customers you build connections with.
- Free Bonfire Shawl Class – In this free, step-by-step video tutorial, Amy shows you everything you need to know to make this fun, happy shawl.
- Free Launch Content Framework– The Launch Content Framework will help you create consistent and engaging content and this will also help you organize your messaging to connect with your audience. Plan your Launch Content strategically to get your audience excited to buy!
- Adaptive Inner Circle – The Inner Circle with Paul & Melissa Pruitt is an epic 12-month experience for online business owners, coaches, course creators, and membership site owners who aspire to create financial freedom and a lifestyle they want for themselves and their family and also create a positive impact in their community and the world.
- Adaptive Marketing Program – The Adaptive Marketing Program is an exclusive opportunity for online business owners, coaches, course creators, and membership site owners to play bigger and bolder in their business and explode their bank account with more clients!
For a list of our resources & recommendations visit: https://onlinemarketingpodcast.com/learn-with-paul-melissa/
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Melissa: Welcome to a special membership site interview series, where Paul and I interview online entrepreneurs about marketing and selling their memberships. Today, we're talking to Dayna Abraham.
Dayna works with out of the box children and families to calm the chaos in their lives. And what's really exciting about this interview is that we've known Dayna for a long time and we've watched her evolve her memberships.
She actually has several different types of. She knows her clients so well that she has different memberships to meet them where they are at. And we talk about that in detail on this interview.
So let's go ahead and dive in. I know you're really going to love listening to Dayna, sharing her journey with building the different types of memberships in her business.
Paul: So Dayna so excited to have you on, I remember the first time that we met you. I think it was Dallas, Texas. We were all at a private mastermind. And just over the last several years, like I think on both ends, I think it's a mirror, like the evolution that we all have gone through since then. So I've been really excited for us to have this interview with you today.
Dayna: Well, I am excited to be here. I was thinking about that too. And. Now when you just said Dallas, I was like, oh yeah. And it has been that long. It's been a while. So I mean, yeah, we're both in totally different places now compared to them. So it's really cool.
Melissa: I know. It's really amazing. So why don't you share a little bit just to kick things off exactly what you do, who you serve and how you help.
Dayna: Yeah, so I help parents who have what I call out of the box kids. So if you think of a kid that has been deemed too much not enough, right? Like too loud, too crazy, too wild, too angry, too sad, too emotional or not active enough, not engaged enough, not motivated. Any of those things, right? The, not enough and too much kids.
So I help their parents and I help them create a family that actually works together that empowers each other advocates for each other. And each member of the family feels heard, seen and valued for who they are, not for who people think they should be. that's what I do. And we run three memberships.
We help people at different levels. So we help parents who just need, grab and go resources that you know, for those in the moment we call them chaos causers, you know, your kid's not getting out the door in the morning. Your kid's not brushing their teeth. Like your kid's not doing their homework, whatever it is.
And then we have a membership that helps parents really go from surviving to thriving. And it's a step-by-step roadmap and it walks them through the seven different stages that we see that parents go through along that journey of surviving to thriving. And then our final membership is actually.
The parents who hit that like fierce advocate level they've created their family team. They are able to advocate for kids are able to advocate for themselves. And now they're starting to really like create this out of the box life. And they want a life that's by their design and not by the design of others.
And so they come into that membership and we help them create a out of the box life where they can have an impact beyond their own.
Paul: I love that. I love that. Cause it's something that when you, when you think of these three memberships, it's like, you're, you're, you have people that are at different stages of their own personal transformation.
Like they're probably like crazy going, oh my goodness, what's going on with me or my family, or, you know, my children, they're probably typing into Google or YouTube, like how to solve an immediate problem. And here they are, where these three different offers that you have, that they can really like retake their lives and really.
Yeah. See it as a blessing and, you know, versus probably the opposite when they're first like typing in let's rewind back though, because you know, for some that might be listening to like, oh my goodness, three memberships, do I have to have three memberships? Did you create this all at once? Or did it come like?
Dayna: So when we met. Oh, gosh. I mean, that had to be like 2017, maybe it just based on like where my life has been. So it had to be around them maybe even sooner than that. I didn't really, oh, it was, yeah, it was before 2016 because I didn't even have my book out yet. And first membership that I created actually happened I was headed out of town with a mutual friend of ours and mentor and friend Stu.
And I was headed with village impact to go to Kenya. And I had broke my business and rebuilt it as you guys are familiar on your own journey of breaking and rebuilding businesses. And I had created, our course are called the chaos program and it was, we had done our founder circle twice and at the end.
We had people who say, wait, wait, wait, we can't do this on our own. Like, you have to stick with us. What are we going to do now? And I was like, I have no idea what you're going to do now, but you know, I've heard of the membership. Maybe we could do a membership. So we opened up what we called next step membership.
And I actually launched it at the airport on the way to Kenya, because they were like begging for it. And I was like, all right I have no clue what that was going to look like, but we'll get to stay together. So yeah, launched our founding member, membership that was back in 2018 in the summer of 20 And from there it just morphed a time. And up until just recently, we actually had our main way of getting people into this membership. It was what's called a back end membership. I mean, they had to come through the course and go through the 90 day experience. And then we had to launch the membership on the back of the course.
And so we saw that obviously people would fall off in the course and then not make it to the membership. And so it was really hard to grow this end membership because people had to go through a program that is a thousand dollar program. And so there was this barrier to get people the help they need.
And so that's when we started kind of shifting some things into other memberships and I'm not sure how much you want me to go into yet or. No,
Melissa: but I, what I love though, is that you really paid attention to your audience and where they were at and that, and you'd recognize like, Hey, there's a problem here.
We can't get them the success that they need, we have to change things. And I think that's for all of us as entrepreneurs, we have to be flexible about that because sometimes we have a vision of where this is going to go and how what's going to happen. But you had that vision like, oh, okay. We need to adjust things a little bit.
And that's where it sounds like things started to evolve for you.
Dayna: Well, and I think it's really scary to make that decision too. But I would say that every decision I've made in my business, especially in the last three to four years, has been really listening to my own intuition and really listening to my audience.
And so things started to shift when the pandemic happened and we actually. We would run these massive launches. They were so much fun and we would get upwards of 75,000 people into these launches. I mean, it was, they were pretty big big deals and we would get a lot of momentum. But our conversion rate on the back end was kind of small.
And so it always killed me cause I couldn't help, but I was so thankful for the people who did join us, but I just couldn't help, but think, but we're not helping all these. You know, and this is typical, right? Like 98% of the people who said no. And so I just, I couldn't, I knew that that was normal, but at the same time, it was like, well, I brought them into my world.
I should be able to help them. And so it was just really killing me for awhile. And we had a launch March 20. March of 2020. And the same day my launch started was the same day that the world shut down. And so that was one of our first like, okay, we've got a pivot. Like parents need something different.
People need something different right now. And so we started kind of shifting, we, we went through that 90 day period. We brought them into the membership and we did that twice in 2020. And then at the end of 2020, it was just eating at me that there were all these parents who were dealing with a pandemic who were dealing with virtual schooling, who we're dealing with working from home, all this stuff.
And I knew what we had could help because we were built for this chaos. We were built for when crap hits the fan, like that's what we're used to this pandemic started years ago, for those of us that are been in my membership because, you know, we're dealing with some extreme circumstances and behaviors.
And so I knew I had something that could help them. And so I thought, how can I get this to more people? And so on the back end of that launch or the opening of our course in October of 2020, we decided to open up a front end membership. So for anyone that's not familiar front end membership It means that people can come in from the public, right.
They don't have to go through a course to then get this back door entrance into something. And so we opened up a front end membership. We kept it super simple. It couldn't involve me a ton because I was already serving all the other people in our community. And parenting my own kids during a pandemic.
And so it had to be simple for them. And for us, it had to be a cost that was accessible to as many people as possible. So we made it under $30 because that's less than a dollar a day. And we said, all right, that's really accessible. And what do they need most if they just have this and they're not able to access our further courses or memberships, they'll still have a good transformation.
Like they'll still be able to see change in their family. And that's where our front end membership the huddle was.
Paul: I love that. So just by nature, you, you saw the, the stumbling point as far as like the price point, and you knew that you could serve people at a higher level because that price point was higher and that allowed you to be involved personally and in a team and everything.
And, but it was like, acknowledging that there's still, you know, I look at that, that's like the the emergency room . Level of the problem, people are going to invest and then you have, I normally call it the mommy booboo, like, okay, let's get the bandaid out in ointment.
Like, that's, you know, it's still a problem, but it's like the investment, you know, in the, in the, in the problem that's being solved as a little bit later. And your launches and like these plus thousand people coming in, they're getting the kiss kiss on the booboo, mommy fixed it, you know, solution, you know, that, that makes them at least aware.
Like, Hey, there are other ways that you're able to serve. And just by you listening, you know, I, I just think that's incredible because I think a lot of us think like, oh, we're going to put an offer into the market and like it's permanent. And like, I'm making a decision today and this is what it is. And it's like iron clad and it's in stone, you know, it can't be changed and it freezes a lot of people.
And here you are, like, you were ready to step on a plane and initially going to Kenya and going out to with village impact. And it just, something like that. You just, you just knew you had to serve your people. You knew that you had to put something, a solution out there. You didn't overthink it.
And like that little stepping stone is what's created what, now you're talking with these three memberships. I just think that's a beautiful thing.
So you have the three now do you have people that kind of ascend through them? Do they find you?.
Dayna: So as I was describing to a new team member, I feel like we've spent the last four years creating all of these beautiful cogs, right?
Like if I look at my eight years online, I created a beautiful online community with organic traffic on Facebook and blogs and things like that. That's one cog. And then I started to create our programs and we broke them and rebuild them and all of that. And then we got our calm, the chaos framework, like that cog is a beautiful cog.
And we've now combined that with our next step membership. So it's one thing when you join our premium membership. You get the 90 day course alongside the membership because we found you need both. And so that's why it's now three memberships. So we've built that. Then we saw that people were starting to graduate.
They were starting to have more time on their hands. They were starting to not. Who they were after they had created this family team, they were like, I got all this like time and space you have like helped me create now, what do I do with it? And so that's . Where the high level membership was born.
It's a high level coaching program. And we help them, you know, pretty intensely create this, like out of the box life. We created that during the pandemic as well, to help people not have to feel stuck by their circumstances and by the jobs that they have. And so people did ascend into that one.
And so we built that nice little cog, and then we built our front end membership. And then we built some like SLOs to bring people in, which are, you know, self-liquidating offers to bring people in and they've all been working beautifully isolated. And now this year is all about how do we get these cogs to work together seamlessly and get people to ascend from the huddle membership to next step, to conquer and thrive.
And still allow people to come in at the stage they're they're ready for.
Melissa: I love the ecosystem that you have. And I'm just curious too, because I know this is like a dream for most people. It's like, oh my gosh, I would love to have all these different pieces.
Do you have any advice for any entrepreneurs that are interested in memberships that want to have multiple memberships?
Because you've been through it? Like you said, you've had to build it up, break it down, build it up. Any advice for anyone that wants to venture and having those multiple pieces, there's multiple cogs.
Dayna: Start with one start with working. Like I even will tell the people that we coach in our high level coaching program, I'll say, look like you've got this workshop.
It's bringing people in, but you're selling five or 10 at a time right now. And yes, the people going through your workshop want a membership. You don't have to create it right now because they wanted keep serving them, keep serving them, keep serving them. And then once you have a nice little pool of people and you know, that that cog brings people into your world now open up your founding level membership and work on that cog.
Get that one, working, get it sustaining. One thing that you just don't think about is like how much it could cost to run the membership, how much time and energy it's going to take for the membership. And so you want to get all that smooth it out and then create the next one. And so I broke all those rules, right?
Like I did not follow those rules at all. And I think getting something out there is better than waiting for it to be perfect as long as you're still tweaking and, and continuing to put that cog out there over and over again, I say stick with the one, right? Like I think that that's important. Yeah,
Paul: I think this is so key because again, there's resources like people are going to, we have too many shiny objects, all over the place, too many ideas.
And like with what you did with your audience, even though you want it to have that greater impact. And now that full transformation from beginning all the way through, you know, because you're taking somebody that's in that chaos moment and. You know, probably a lot of self-blame and external blame and everything to now they're empowered.
We're now they're influencing and helping other families and everything. I think that's a beautiful, like entire transformation there. And, but you, you solve one problem at a time, you know? And then from there that created natural pressure to solve the next problem. And it's really easy in these conversations to miss, like what we talked about at the beginning, like, Hey, remember, several years ago we met at a mastermind.
How many years have gone by, and it's not like you just woke up and like, all this was there. It's like, there's a lot of trial and error tests, you know? And I know for us, there's a lot of blood, sweat and tears along the way.
Dayna: I think something that doesn't get talked about, cause I see this all the time and I'm sure you do too, this like, oh, I must be doing this wrong because it's just not working.
It's just not working. The first three years of me, not the first three years of me being online, the first three years of me breaking and rebuilding my business and building the cogs I'm talking about right now, I didn't see any progress.
It didn't feel like progress. It honestly, like I was thinking about that because we're about to see each other soon.
And I thought, when was the last time I saw them? I was like, oh my gosh, the last time I saw you. I couldn't pay for my hotel room. Like my credit card was bouncing and we had just had our first million dollar a year as a business. And I know everyone's like, Ooh, elusive million dollar business. We couldn't pay our bills.
Like we had so much like overhead that it just was, it was such a nightmare. You know, I think for a long time, you're going to be in that place of like, it's not working, it's not working, it's not working. And when you feel like it's not working, look for proof that it is making progress. Look for proof that it is working, but it's different than when you started.
Because if you look at generalizations, it will always feel like it's not working. Right. But you'll eventually look back and be like, oh my gosh, how did I get. But you have to, you have to look for that proof. Otherwise it'll feel really disheartening. I think.
Paul: Well, it's interesting that you say that like the last time that we, we physically met and there was a lot of magical things that did happen, even though there's some stress points that you were experiencing at the time.
And it's like, Even the evolution since then, that's just been a last couple of years you know, pre pandemic like the year before, but it's like, even though the wisdom that you've gained, even being in that stressful moment that you had were bigger, must be better. I'm going to get a big team. I'm going to put all the ads and all the craziness out in the world.
I'm going to be heavily leveraged looking for that return on investment. So it's like you've gained this wisdom, this experience that you're sitting here now in this space of peace, because of going through that journey.
I'm just wondering if we could rewind back to like, even around the timeframe, you know, when, when we originally met, when you were just leaning in in, in your first iteration of rebuilding and tearing down, if you could take some of the wisdom and some of the perspective that you have now, what would you, what's like one of your top pieces of advice you would tell yourself your, your past self moving forward.
Dayna: So my past self, you still hold on really tight to everything. And I had this really good friend who at a live event once we're sitting down or talking through stuff and he put my phone in my hand. He he said, all right, now, now toss it out of your hand. I was like, that's my phone? He's like, just do it, just do a little toss and grab it.
And I could not let go of my phone. And he said, that's what you're doing to your business. That's what you're doing to every decision that you make right now. You're holding on so tight, afraid to make the wrong move because you're putting everything into one thing. And, and I would go back to myself and say like this isn't everything.
It is okay if this doesn't work, it is okay that this is messy right now. And so many people said it and I couldn't see it back then, but people would say like, look at what you are doing. And I would still be like, yeah, but, you know, and, and I was just, I was so hard on myself and I think that, that's the thing that I've really gained is just like stop being so hard on yourself and stop holding on so tight because when you give that breath into your business and into the decisions you make, that's where you have room to grow and pivot and shift, instead of like what's around the corner, what do I do? How do I do that?
Paul: And really quick that that's amazing because you're languaging even earlier on was like, oh yeah, I, I broken, rebuilt my business several times.
So that person that you were where you wouldn't even be allowed to even let go of a phone in a moment like that was very represented in like how much you've evolved yourself professionally. Probably it probably is impacted personally as well, just having done a perspective.
Melissa: So one of the things we always like to ask our guests and getting kind of creative, cause you've done all the marketing, all the things.
And again, that whole starting over again, if you had $500 and we're starting all over again with your marketing, how would you use that money with that resource.
Dayna: That's such an interesting one. Because yeah, I, oh my goodness. ' cause I don't think you even need the $500 to get started again. Like I think like for me it would be making connections and it would be finding out what is a need and how can I fill that need. And it would be taking it back to like personalized connections and just serving and that doesn't cost money.
Yeah. And so for me, I would just like put that little 500 and like a little celebratory bank, you know, maybe do like dollar a day to boost something that organically did really well. Or maybe to hide. One person to help me in, you know, like to set stuff up, but honestly, I wouldn't be spending, like I would, I would just be putting my nose to the ground and listening to what people need and then putting out something that could serve the people that need it.
Melissa: I love that. I love that, but connections is a huge thing. And I know just even when we met, that was an initial connection and the friendship that we've had, and that's, that's how you build relationships and opportunities happen.
Paul: And maybe based on what we talked about. Maybe they're going to replace the phone. They just throw up in the air.
Apple care so that you can practice letting go of your phone. Okay.
So we're, we're very blessed. And again, as, as we've alluded to that we're very blessed that, wow, here we were total strangers years ago and we met at a. Small intimate, very powerful i, I feel mastermind by a mutual friend and then here we are fast forwarding years later, and we're about to see each other again, physically at another very high level mastermind.
And I think those relationships and investing in yourself and when it is the right time to make that investment to surround yourself by like-minded individuals. And we're very blessed because I'm not sure we should talk about it on, on the show or not, but. Just one also just thank you on a personal level, because you involved us in a decision that you made in that moment a few years ago, when we last saw each other.
And since then, even during the pandemic, you know, all of us have been blessed with the opportunity to further impact globally and speaking of Stu and village impact earlier on Involved us in the decision and trusted us at that time to go in with you. And also our friend, Amy you know, listen to, to invest in you know, building another school in Kenya.
So, and to
Dayna: bring it full circle, Melissa and Paul like to bring it full circle back to this, like not holding on too tight. I'm in Kenya. And they're asking for an early childhood center and I have no extra money. And I called my husband. I'm like, and he's like, what thing did you do? And I was like committed to us building a school.
And he's like, what? I'm like, I know he's like with what money.
And so I had all these ideas of like, we're going to do this and we're going to make the money this way and we're going to do this. We're going to do that. And all of it kept falling apart, falling apart. And then. I just kind of quit holding on so tight, whereas sitting down at a table chatting and it was like, you know, like imagine hotel bar, right?
we're sitting at the hotel bar at a table and I'm like talking and you're like, why would I do a classroom? And Amy's like, I want to do a classroom right there in the moment the school is paid for. It was like, oh my gosh. Like in a matter of 15 minutes, the school was paid for.
And that to me, Is still something that is mind blowing to me, that I had all these thoughts and plans and launches and, and strategy and all this stuff. And all it took was a 15 minute conversation with the right people in the right place at the right time and magic happened. And like that, I think really pulls it full circle back to this.
Okay. Go like you don't have to hold on so tight because the magic will still happen.
Melissa: You're making me tear up here now. It's just, it's it's really powerful. Oh, I love it. Dayna, this has been amazing. I know our listeners are gonna want to get in touch with you and hear more about what you do. So can you share a little bit how they can stay in touch with you.
Dayna: Yeah. So one of the best ways honestly is just to go to, we have a blog called lemonlimeadventures.com. That's a great place to go or go to calmthechaosworkshop.com. And they'll tell you about our newest workshops that are.
Paul: That is so awesome. And again, thank you for giving us that 15 minutes then in who knows.
I mean, we were talking right now and like, that was the impact that we've made up until this moment in time and just the ripple effect that you have in the world, what we're trying to do in our world as well, and just how they combine and overlap in different points of our lives.
So just want to thank you for allowing that to . Happen as well, especially today to make an impact and influence, because I think what was shared today is just going to show that you don't have to get a perfect. It's not permanent. You can rebuild. And you know, if you, if you go with a servant heart and you just go out and lead and, and give to, it's amazing how the world just reciprocates a full circle.
Dayna: Well, thank you for having me. Thank you for trusting me and being open you know, you guys have poured back into me with your advice and your wisdom so many times. So everyone listening here, you're in good hands with these two, so continue to lean into them and follow them for whatever wisdom they have to share with you.